Rangers 101 with Nick Frederick

Joining us on the Public Lands Podcast is Nick Frederick, Park Ranger Program Director. In this episode we dive into all things SLC Park Rangers! Listen now to learn about what they do and and how the rangers make a difference in our community.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hi everyone, I'm Kim, and I'm Finola. Welcome to the Public Lands Podcast. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Public Lands Podcast. Today we are joined by Nick Frederick, the Park Ranger Program Director.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

The city has 14 dedicated park rangers to ensure that our city parks and trails are welcoming, safe, and a positive place for everybody to enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Welcome to the podcast, Nick. Welcome. We're very excited to have you. We are. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah, very excited to be here. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Um, okay, so diving right in, Nick, the park rangers are a pretty unique group within the city. Um, can you tell us a little bit about how you ended up leading them? We know that you worked with Kim here in a past life. Could you talk a little bit about your pre-public lands life?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Absolutely. So I worked with Kim at the Utah House of Representatives. Um I was the chief of staff for the uh House Minority Caucus, the Democrats, and Kim worked with us uh during a legislative session. Um really glad we're able to work together again. That was a that was a great experience.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

It was fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

It was wild during like COVID, but yes, yep, that part of it was uh was pretty wild. Um and in general, that's just a a pretty crazy place to work um during the legislative session, but not during the legislative session, it's pretty slow. So I went back to grad school to get a master's in public administration um so that I could have a job like this doing something cool related to municipal government, ideally, um, where you could have a really strong impact on the day-to-day lives of not just uh the people you live near, but on your own kids and families and and your friends and the people who all enjoy uh using our public lands. So it's been really cool to make that switch from politics and and policy side of government over to the the municipal management side of government. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Has that kind of always been your focus or your field of interest?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Uh yeah, love being outdoors. One of the big reasons to to move to Utah um from Virginia about 10 years ago was to be in the outdoors. Um and politics is a great place if you are willing to hustle and work long hours and take on tasks that nobody else wants to do.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

You were definitely hustling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

And then uh, but if you're looking for a little more stability, uh going over to the to the municipal side of government, the smaller side of government is uh is a nice way to change it up just to get a little more predictability. I think my favorite line from Parks and Recreation was uh Jerry saying that his favorite part of the job is getting to go home every day at five o'clock and be with his family, and that's definitely my favorite part too.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, we love it. And we're very happy that you ended up here so that we could work together again, but also I feel like you're making a really big impact with the park rangers program, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

It's we're trying a lot of things, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Yeah, and we're excited to dive into those things. So can you just kind of top line tell us a little bit about who the Salt Lake City Park Rangers are and what they do for public lands? Because I feel like not a lot of people, well, now they are, but people are starting to kind of get to know that they exist, and we just would love to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Sure. So the program started in August of 2022. Um, the city had a bunch of leftover federal funds that they needed to use, and uh this park ranger program was a great idea that had been sitting on the shelf for a while, and they dusted it off and put in some work on what it should look like and said, hey, let's let's launch this now, now's a great time. Um so all of the all of the urban park ranger programs across the country look very different from each other to try to meet different needs, and so we had to try to build something that met the needs of Salt Lake City, um, which is fairly unique in terms of having so much parks, natural spaces that are so spread out and so widely used. Um so we focused on three things at first. It was education, customer service, and public safety. Um rangers do not have compliance authority, they don't have any sort of enforcement mechanisms, so focusing the public safety aspect a lot on education, on identifying potential issues before they escalate and finding the the right people to deal with those, or by addressing those with a with a more friendly conversation. Um most people are pretty amenable to changing their behavior if they're approached in the right way with um someone who's who's genuinely trying to improve uh the public space for everyone. Um the education component goes in both for that those voluntary compliance conversations, but uh also formal public programs. Um our last department director was very passionate about park rangers doing formal public programs, which is not something I had any experience in. So trying to build that out has been a lot of testing, seeing what works, what does the public respond to. Um and so that's been that's been a really fun uh part of the program to develop and seeing a lot of people starting to return to multiple programs, um, which you can find all of those on both our Park Ranger website and on the public lands website, uh, and in a summer mailer that comes to your comes to your home. Um so just really excited uh that that's gotten to a much better spot. And then um customer service, just helping people navigate the parks, um, both from meeting someone friendly who knows more about uh the parks than you do. Sometimes the people who visit know a lot more than our rangers do and educate them, which is always wonderful. Um, but uh delivering a real friendly customer service uh voice uh in public lands, our department has so many wonderful people who make sure that our parks look beautiful, who care for our natural spaces, um, who plan out wonderful things. But the um folks on our team who are focused on the personal experience of folks visiting public lands, properties, uh, those are our park rangers. So um we really take that mission strongly and and want to engage as much as possible and and make it feel like a place that people are gonna want to come back to over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah, absolutely. And they do such a good job and across all the different parks. I mean, you meet s so many people, locals, visitors, um and they they really I've I've seen them out many times, and they do such a great job at with whoever they come across.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah. Yeah, and then there's just so much else to do out there. I mean, they're also making sure the trash gets picked up. Uh there's a lot of unfortunately you'll find uh some nasty things out there and rangers are are making sure that that gets taken care of, graffiti gets uh removed really quickly. Um you know, being eyes and ears is is another really important aspect that our team does and and one of the things that they take a lot of pride in um because they are they're a very active group and trying to ensure that those spaces stay as welcoming as possible for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, and not easy, not not an easy job as much as people might think walking around a park just chit-chatting to people is is very hard. A breeze, yeah. It they're coming across a lot of different issues that maybe the public uh don't think about dealing with that they directly do. So they're doing really great work.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

And I was amazed, we put together a social media post with like your stats from last year. I was just truly amazed at seeing the numbers of like again, graffiti removal, all of these things, it's incredibly impressive that like a small group of people is able to make such a large impact.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

So yeah, no, that's great to hear because uh I know day to day it can feel tough um when you're just plodding away and trying to make things um small improvements when you can, but when you do zoom out, you see the effort of a much larger group. I know um we've talked to our folks before about violence prevention and that uh that idea that having welcoming spaces where people, these third spaces that people visit that aren't their home, that aren't their school or their work, but places where communities come together, when those places are strong, it tends to reduce not only public violence but also private violence. It makes uh a city a more thriving place. It's just kind of a really, a really great way to think about our jobs in terms of how we're improving um the city and and making it be a more livable place for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Yeah. And parks are kind of some of those last spaces left that the community can use in that way. So we've got to keep them keep them beautiful and safe.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

100%. And you kind of touched on this, but just for clarity for people, what are the park rangers not? What are they not uh maybe responsible for, responsible for doing that other um agencies in the city are?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah. So most importantly, they're not law enforcement, they're not gonna get anybody in trouble um for violating any rules. They're gonna talk to you about why following the rules are important. Um if there are people who are being dangerous to to themselves or to the public or are repeat offenders, you that's where we'll escalate things to either Salt Lake City PD or FIRE or to Salt Lake County Animal Services, um, if it's an animal-related issue. Um we also are not service providers or first responders, um, but we do have really close relationships with those folks, especially um on the unhoused side of things. Um, you know, one of our key metrics is uh how we interact with folks who are experiencing homelessness in parks, um, trying to make sure that both being a friendly face every day that they see someone they can trust, um, so that if they're not quite ready to get resources right then, after they get to know somebody, they can trust them. They know that this that this person has has their interests at heart, um, that they'll then hopefully uh get some help when they need it. Um we've seen the fruits of that. Just pennies in a cup type philosophy of just continuing to try to build those relationships. Um it makes a big difference when when you need to ask somebody to to try to make a change, or um if there are situations where folks have been maybe entrenched a little too long, um, you know, we try to try to move move folks along so that uh the problems don't continue to to persist. Um but working really closely with our our homeless service providers and um other entities related to homelessness uh is a big one too.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah, definitely. So I'm just curious, were you the first person in this role since it's uh pretty new, the Park Ranger program? Like did you you were part of kind of building it all? Technically, no. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Uh technically there was somebody before me, but she had to quit due to a family emergency, I believe, just before the program launched.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

So since the program right before it launched?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Right after. Oh, right after. It launched in August of 2022, and I came on Thanksgiving of that year.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Oh wow, wow, okay. So because this program is still pretty new, you and you and your team truly, I think, have some of the most things going on of anybody in our department to like manage, and you lead so many different programs and events. Since you came into this kind of right after it launched, what has it been like to really build out that program of like what they're doing day to day, all of the events that you host? You touched on it a little bit when you kind of explained what they do, but what has that process been like for you in this role as the director?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Uh it's been a lot of iteration, a lot of testing things out and seeing what works, uh, trying to learn from um what others have done. One of the things we've instituted the last two years is having an annual plan so that way everybody on our team is aligned on what we're trying to accomplish that year and what we're and how we're trying to go about it. Um we're also in the process of developing an interpretive plan with the goal being um how do you take someone who's maybe never visited a park in our city before? How do you take that person and make them start wanting to visit that park over and over again? How do you then get them to start exploring other parks and trails and natural spaces? How do you get them to start coming to some events? Maybe getting involved as a steward or a member of a friends of group. How do you kind of deepen that person's relationship to their city public lands? Um so being really intentional about that is something that we're we're really looking forward to to trying to implement. Um we kind of already do it a little more informally, but uh having a a strong plan for how we can how we can pull someone along, I think will be something that's really valuable not only to our department, but to the city. Um and those are all things that I had never come across before I I started this job. Um but really it's the the idea of uh let's plan, let's ask. We've been doing annual surveys with the public too to ask them what they want from park rangers. That's a big reason why we started to manage uh a lot of our stewardship events because um we asked people what kind of educational opportunities they wanted, and they really wanted something that provided a level of education and interpretation, but also paired it with some stewardship so that way um felt like an easy an easy partnership between our team and our stewardship team, thinking through like what we've never had a an urban park ranger program in Salt Lake City before. What do people want that to be? And being responsive to that.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Um well then, so what's it been like? You it's been four years of the Rangers. I guess looking at it from when you first started compared to now, what is that difference looking like? Well and maybe what are the similarities too?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Uh not a ton of similarities except that there's great people working on our team. Um a lot of the differences when Rangers first started, uh not having full uniforms that made them look like park rangers, uh not knowing exactly what they were supposed to be doing when they were walking around parks and talking to people, um, not having a strong um schedule or sort of a coherent idea of which parks we were hitting at what times of day and why, um not having sort of a coherent um strategy for how to conduct compliance conversations with the public. Um we've also gotten, as Kim referenced earlier, we've gotten much more sophisticated with our data, um, trying to continue to collect this as much data as we can year over year over year so we can compare those, um, in addition not only to having numbers but also having qualitative data, stories that we can tell. Um, because so much of of what we do, as I kind of mentioned earlier, it's tough to feel that day-to-day impact, but when you have those stories behind it, it makes the work feel a lot more worthwhile and a lot more meaningful. And I've really noticed an uptick in our team um relaying those stories recently. And I think so much of it is just because of putting in four years of work. Um we've had a a really strong team together now for quite a long time. Um, so being able to to be really sort of aggressive and try some different things has been has been a really fun way to to maximize our impact uh that we're having for for our department.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Yeah. It's nice that now you can try those new things, like you're at a place to expand and be creative too.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yes. Initially it was just figuring out what do they want us to do, what time should people show up and where. Um it was so much initial logistics to to figure out um that once we finally got all that out of the way, this is much more fun to be able to experiment with.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Yeah, 100%. And kind of this is a logistical question a little bit. So you all um work out of the carriage house at Fisher Mansion, and we're wondering a little bit like what it is like to manage a team that is in the field so much, and how you're able to kind of make sure everybody stays connected and on the same page with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, so speaking of logistics, we have Rangers on seven days a week. So we have one team that works Sunday to Wednesday and another that works Wednesday to Saturday. Um it is a 10-hour day for those folks. Uh we shift it with the sunlight, so uh, and during summer, we have rangers on from seven in the morning until eight thirty at night. Um so really trying to hit people on both sides of that, uh, both sides of the summer heat. Um, but yes, we have rangers who one team that does work out of the carriage house with us, but we also have a team at Fairmont, Liberty, and um, well, they will be at Pioneer when the new Pioneer is constructed, but they're currently working out of the library. So we've got folks starting their day all across the city. It requires a lot of coordination from our lead rangers, uh, from our park ranger supervisors, um, and we try to get them together as often as possible to do some more of that team building, some of that best practice sharing. Um, it is uh a challenge to try to feel connected not only as an admin team to a field team, but also to a field team within themselves. Um, we've made team morale and um team cohesion a big priority this year in our annual plan. Um, so just trying to find opportunities when things aren't as busy to get people together to try to build some of those relationships because um they're really valuable and it can be tough if you don't feel connected to your coworker um out in the field. Or we also want to make sure that people are having similar experiences when they're talking to different rangers. All of our rangers have really unique perspectives, they all bring a lot to the table, and being able to learn from each other is a really important thing that we've we've tried leaning on a lot more.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

I will say, whenever um something goes up on Instagram with the Rangers, I really love to see all the Rangers commenting, like cheering on their fellow rangers. They're like, Go hunter, go Kyle.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Like they are very supportive of each other. Yeah. Yeah, great to see.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

It is really great to see. And I actually I have a a a question that just popped into my head. So you've been talking about kind of the hours and the structure, the logistics of it. Was this all something like are there other ranger programs throughout the country that uh Salt Lake looks to or has looked to to kind of build out this program? I know that we particularly in comms love uh the Boise Parks and Rec website. Yeah, we love their social media and their website. And we're in Spo. Yeah, their trails, uh their trail site too, and the way that they communicate information. So we're always kind of looking at them as like, oh, like they did such a good job with that. You know, is there a similar uh program out there for the rangers?

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Uh no, we've borrowed from a lot of different programs. Um, because as I kind of mentioned at the start, every urban park ranger program was designed to fit different needs depending on what their types of supports they have. Um I think um the city of Austin has a park ranger program where they really treat their rangers as more of ambassadors, um, which is partially some of the things we've done, I think, from uh a logistical standpoint. Um, we've looked at the Denver Park Rangers for kind of how they've managed to operate um in their city. Uh our SOP structure was borrowed heavily from the Seattle Park Rangers, even though they're kind of a a pretty different group. Um, but I've also had folks from Burlington reach out to us to see when they were forming theirs what we were doing. Um same, we actually just got an email from the City of Austin Park Rangers asking us a few questions. Um I've met with the director for Phoenix Park Rangers. They have a very different set of issues um down there, having so many people recreate at night, which is just sort of a it's very fun to think about other people's problems too, the ones that we don't have to solve.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Um so it's been uh there's not quite a park ranger conference or anything like that where we can all learn from each other, but there is quite a bit of informal folks um throwing around questions to each other, trying to review each other's websites, see what works, and yeah, kind of from the programming perspective, like New York City has uh has just so much programming that they've built up since their park rangers have been around for a while, so kind of leaned heavily on some of their catalogs to to get some ideas for what we wanted to do. So we kind of take bits and pieces from from all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah. It's nice that it's custom though to each place because that makes so much sense that each city has its own little intricacies and but also so nice that they're willing to reach out or to help.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Um yeah. I I truthfully don't think I knew that cities had park rangers.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

No.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

I didn't know that New York had rangers. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

You're you're kind of from there.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Well, yeah, but when I in my head I'm like where?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah like I guess Central Park, but uh which is huge, but I you know, I and I think in some of the some of the other boroughs too, they've got some cool stuff going on. You know, you can do camping and archery and fishing classes, also. Lots of programs, yeah, that they've got going there.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Bad New Yorker. No, but every I feel like it's a common thing that like you hear of a park ranger and you just don't think of it in a city context always. Right. I always think National Park. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I think it's really good that now there's kind of this network and we're able to kind of help tell the story of that. So hopefully everybody will know. It is really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Honolulu reached out when they were forming theirs, but I haven't seen what they've done, they've done up to.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

And that's so interesting because it's such a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah. We all deal with different issues in different ways. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Very cool. Um so pivoting a little bit, um the Rangers help so much with our stewardship programs and um just supporting our events. And in your own events, you work with the phrase or the campaign be wild. Can you kind of talk to our listeners about what Be Wild is and how the Park Rangers are utilizing it?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, Be Wild is an acronym. Uh the Wild is Welcome, Inclusive Spaces, Limit Your Impact, and do what you can. We try to tie all of our programs to one of those four themes. Um we'll utilize the welcome theme often if it's a a place people maybe haven't been before, or a tour, or something like that, um, somewhere to really get people a little more invested in a spot they maybe go by every day but don't think about. Uh inclusive spaces is something we we use a lot in our compliance conversations. Um, try to approach a lot of those conversations that way of you know, yes, your behavior might not be that disruptive to you as you perceive it, but it could be disruptive to somebody else. Um so trying to ensure uh those things are being thought about uh in in a more frontward way. Um limit your impact uh is often one that we will use when when people are are violating like other um park rules, um, stuff like tying stuff up to trees or leaving a mess after having a picnic or not picking up waste after their dog goes somewhere. Um but also about using spaces uh like our trails, especially, like making sure that folks are sticking on trail, um making sure that people aren't throwing too much stuff into the river, um, just lots of other sort of behaviors that you see all the time in the city that people might not think about as having a negative impact on others, and then uh do what you can. That one's tied directly to the volunteer and stewardship aspect, trying to get people to give their time to come in to do a cool project. I mean, we have so many cool volunteer projects that people want to clean up. Um, those are always great, but the plantings, the trail work, all of that is really uh a wide variety of people to get a little more involved and to really kind of yeah, do what you can.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Okay, yeah. So piggybacking off of working with our stewardship team and um the rest of the departments all the time, how does your team work with stewardship and I guess the rest of us not just serving the public but also helping us do our jobs?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Uh so our folks are the ones out there doing a lot of the forward-facing outreach. Um if I had to describe our job in one word, it would be outreach. That's the entirety of the of the position. So stewardship does a really good job of planning logistics, recruiting volunteers, designing a really cool project for people to do, and then the rangers are enlisted to help execute that project, to be out there interacting with people, providing that uh authority figure who's able to tell people what what they should and shouldn't be doing, to help out if somebody has questions on technique or anything like that. Um, and then also ideally to provide some sort of an interpretive element, something that makes it a deeper connection to the space that we're in. Um, you know, we've got so many different uh projects related to the Jordan River, and and our folks uh will often host like macroinvertebrate programs. So you could see these small bugs that are uh living in the river and are indicative indicative of the health of uh of that waterway, and the work that folks are doing on land has a direct impact on not only those bugs, but then the animals that feed off of them. Um so being able to make that direct connection is uh is a really cool thing that our our folks are able to do. Um same thing with you know urban forestry. They do a great job of planting trees and making our urban canopy uh into a more robust, um a more robust canopy. Uh, but having park rangers there to educate folks about why that's so important, about why we we really need to be watering your trees, why we need to be um not hanging things up on them or climbing them without permission, like those are important important ways that uh that rangers can do the outreach that just wouldn't be possible from folks who are really busy doing uh so much of the technical work around the city um and making sure that the the fruits of their labor is is not in vain, that uh the public both appreciates it and is able to respect it and to follow the rules around it.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

We were able to experience one of those kind of like Jordan River water activities at the Bachman Open Space, I guess grand opening, and Owen did this presentation and it was the coolest thing ever. So like you would never think necessarily of how all of that connects until you physically see it, but doing that educational piece, I think, is uh very cool and impactful.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah, it just creates a deeper bond for everybody to the spaces that they're in, which I think is kind of our our department's uh real goal here.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

So is there an area that you feel like you've seen the most change in with like the presence of the rangers?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Um we're definitely being recognized more, um, which is really cool because when we first started, that was a a big issue for our team is nobody really understanding what the park rangers were or that we even had them. Um but the fact now that we are not only recognized, but that rangers will have relationships with people they see regularly is really cool. People who come to a variety of different programs or see our rangers in different contexts. Um and then we've also just noticed behavioral changes. Um, you know, the two biggest issues that we deal with are off-leash dogs and interacting with the unhoused. Um, and we've noticed a a pretty strong increase in compliance with uh on leash dog regulations, which has been great to see. Um, and we've also noticed a decrease in unhoused populations in parks, um, specifically around um, you know, sort of like unsafe or areas that um, you know, we're not were not really good environments for for either those folks or for the people who wanted to visit parks. Um, you know, we've had families come up to some of our rangers and say, this is the first time I felt comfortable bringing my kids back to this park. Like, thank you all for being here and for all the work that you've put in. And it's definitely not all on our team, it's a group effort with the rest of the city, with our public safety partners, with our resource partners, but um still to feel a part of that and to feel that very direct impact on people's lives has been a really cool thing. We've just gotten more and more stories like that coming through. Um, and I think it's a direct uh result of the effort we've put in over the last four years.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

And then to wrap it up, um, what is something you'd like folks to know about the ranger team that they might not know currently or that we haven't touched on?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Uh we have a really diverse group of rangers with a lot of different backgrounds. So you might think of a park ranger as as a natural resource person, and we certainly do have a fair number of folks from that background, but we also have people from more of a social work background or people who come from an education uh background. Um so lots of kind of different talents and abilities, um, but everybody really wants to be a be a problem solver. Um I'm just really impressed with their desire to try to help make our parks and trails and natural spaces better. Um, you know, sometimes they're just problems that that we can't fix, but often they bring to attention stuff that's been overlooked or stuff that wouldn't have gotten seen. Um and it's really great when the public brings those to us. So please, anybody uh listening, if you run into a park ranger, tell them um either what you love about the parks or what could be fixed or made better, um, because that stuff does get run up the chain and and uh does have a meaningful impact and and so um please be sure to be sure to talk to a park ranger about your feelings about that because they're gonna they're gonna take it to heart and they're gonna try to make it better for you.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

And that is, I feel like, the best part of the work that they do is that like I mean I'm not a park ranger, but is that connection that they have with the community it feels really special. So thanks, Nick. We feel like that was a really great overview of the program, and we are excited to have a few different rangers on the podcast in the future to talk about their specific work and their passions and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yeah, they're gonna be much they're gonna be much better than me. They're gonna have a lot a lot more fun stuff to talk to you guys about.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah, we really appreciate you being here with us. And uh for anybody listening, we have many fun events coming up this summer, including a whole slew of park ranger events just all throughout the summer. So be sure to check those out for anybody who'd like to get out there and meet our rangers and see what they're all about. Yeah, thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Thank you all for joining us for this week's episode of the Public Lands Podcast. Chat soon, and we'll see you on the trail.