Trail Talk with Jake Eiting

On today's show, Jake Eiting, Trails and Natural Lands Operation Manager, joins Kim and Finola to discuss maintaining our public land ecosystems. Jake loves to recreate outdoors and take advantage of everything our city has to offer. Listen to learn the best practices when using in our trail system and find out his personal recommendations for the best running trails in SLC!  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hi everyone, I'm Kim, and I'm Fanola. Welcome to the Public Lands Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Everybody, welcome Jake Iding, our new operations manager for the Trails and Natural Lands Division here at the Salt Lake City Public Lands.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Jake is not new to our department per se, but he is new in this role, and we're very excited for him to take on this new position within TNL and that we still have him with us. Also, for the rest of this episode, you might hear us refer to the department as TNL, that stands for Trails and Natural Lands. So if you hear us refer with that acronym, that's all we're trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Welcome, Jake. Thanks for joining us on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah, thanks for having me, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Super excited. We would love to selfishly learn a little bit more about you. So can you tell us a little bit about where you're from and like what in your life led you to work at public lands?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I'm from Utah. I grew up in Bountiful, um, but I've lived in Salt Lake for a number of years now. Um I have a degree in botany. Um, so that's what kind of got me into this realm of work. Um so after college I did a few summers of like seasonal botany work, uh vegetation surveys out in the desert, um, super fun stuff. And then I worked at Red Butte Garden for a couple years after that. And then I've been here now for a little over two years.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Oh nice. What were you doing at Red Butte?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Um, I was a horticulturist up there. Cool. So just managed some of the gardens.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I love that. I used to work there too. And so yeah, I was on the events team. Oh nice very different work. Yeah. But it was like the most peaceful place to kind of like show up to work every day. Agreed. So definitely cool. Yeah, I miss it, but I love working for the city. Yeah. So were you just like a kid who was always in the dirt?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I mean, uh yes, but like I didn't know that I had a love of plants until later in life. Okay. I was always outdoors and like camping, recreating, mountain biking, doing that sort of stuff. So I always loved um, you know, being outside. Yeah. Um, but I thought I was gonna be an engineer actually. That's like what I started going to school for, and then big old pivot and changed majors and totally. Do you remember what that moment was that you it was a pretty pivotal course that I took um from um Dr. Clark. He just passed away uh from cancer, unfortunately. Um but he taught like an intro uh environmental appreciation course.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

And uh it was a required like general class. Um they made all the like finance kids like take it. Everyone hated it, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

It's actually like important, but it's required. And interesting.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

I wouldn't have thought that that'd be.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

And um but anyway, it just really spoke to me and I was like, wait, you can do this kind of work and make a living? Like, yeah, that's amazing. So I went and talked to him in his office, and he was like, Why don't you join the botany department? And I was like, Okay. I love that stuff recruiting. So yeah, haven't looked back.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Oh, that's great. That's so cool. Yeah. Um, okay, so you are the new operations manager. Can you tell us about kind of this role, your previous role with public lands, how they're different, what your day-to-day looks like now that you're in this role? Is it very different?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Um, yeah, it is quite a bit different. So my trajectory has kind of been I started as uh what's called a natural resource technician. So it's just kind of um what a lot of our employees are, um, full-time employees. Um specifically, I was working in the foothills as kind of like um the ecology tech. Um so mapping invasive species, mapping native populations of plants, doing trail work, all sorts of things. Um and then I became the natural land supervisor. Um, and then this year um got promoted to the operations manager. So operations manager is all about making sure the work gets done day to day, making sure um the team knows what they're doing, scheduling, um, making sure we have all the right tools and equipment that we need to get the work done, um and taking just all the input in from the constituents of the city from other departments, um kind of managing all the incoming um communications and trying to make it all work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Well, congrats again. It's very exciting, and you're like the perfect person to take that. Thank you so much. I really are. Okay, and so just for people who really don't know anything about your division of Trails and Natural Lands, what does the division do and what areas of public lands do they cover?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Great question. Um so Trails and Natural Lands is a division within public lands, um similar to parks, um, but we manage different types of spaces. So parks is um over a lot of like our traditional type parks, sports fields, um, things like that. Our properties are more of what you would call nature parks, so spaces that are managed for a different experience. Um so we're trying to um maintain or restore what kind of habitat we have um for people to enjoy, but also for all of our native um plants and animals to thrive in. Um so we have a number of nature parks all throughout the valley uh and in the city limits, um, but we also take care of uh the foothills trail system and quite a bit of acreage up there in what we call the foothills natural natural area. Um and so yeah, so we have a lot of properties along the Jordan River, um along our other uh riparian corridors, Immigration Creek, Redview Creek, uh Parley's Creek, um, and then yeah, like I said, the foothills.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah. That's like such an interesting dynamic of the all those spaces are so unique and different and probably take different knowledge and skill set. And so your team is very important to kind of like keep all of that ecology going.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Yeah, absolutely. Um each space is a little bit different. Um, what it means and the it you know, its history as well kind of dictates a lot of w how it's managed now. Um but yeah, it's a fun challenge. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Can you expand on that a little bit? Like what is something that has like a unique history that changes the way that it's managed versus maybe something else.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Absolutely. Um maybe we can dive into this a little bit more later on, but I'll kind of tell you a little bit about the Cornell Wetlands. Yeah. Um so it was a space that was um just kind of like a neighborhood hangout for like high schoolers. There was like some bike jumps and stuff that were built there. Um it was like just kind of a neglected space in some regards. Um and then it was um taken on as a project by public utilities and they built like a lift station that brings storm water up to the up to the surface and lets it flow through this new wetland system. So big construction, you know, the soil gets turned over. Um that kind of like has this uh history of like a disturbance is what we call it in ecology, right? Um and now we're trying to bring it back to what it was a few hundred years ago, right? To a native like Jordan River floodplain kind of ecosystem. So um all those little disturbances lead to the challenges that we face now. Like um all the kind of weeds that are on site and um yeah, just kind of what we inherit, you know, can sometimes be a a difficult challenge or it can set us up for maybe an easier um success with restoration.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, absolutely. And Cornell, how long has that project been going? Gosh. Um I think we've talked about Cornell so many times on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

I like it. Gotta get you guys out there.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Like tomorrow. It's it's beautiful. Um, we've been putting a lot of work into it. Um, I wanna say our involvement with it's been six or seven years. Oh wow, okay. I'm not sure. Don't uh don't take the phone. It's been it's been an ongoing process. Yeah, yeah. And we'll be invested in it for for many years to come.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So well, it looks great. Every time we talk about it, I'm like, oh man. That's one of your favorite spots. Well, that's where um Jake, this that's where I first met you. Like my very first day at Public Lands, I was covering a Cornell planting and I needed the names of the plants that we were planting. And uh our old coworker Drew was like, Oh, you should go talk to Jake. And I was like, Hi are you, Jake? Can you run me through this? And you were so kind and really just like gave me so much knowledge, it was amazing. Thank you. Yeah, I remember that. You welcome her to public lands with open arms. Um so back to the foothills. Um they do cover a huge portion of our east side, and of course, there's always so much going on between use and um and redevelopment. But um, right now in summer of 2026, is there a big project that you and your team are working on with the foothills? And is there um maybe also something that you're excited about project-wise elsewhere in Salt Lake?

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so there's always, like you said, there's always so much going on up in the foothills. Um, as a lot of people will will know by now, there's been ongoing construction up at the 18th Avenue Trailhead. Um, so that's a big project that um Public Utilities is taking on, and we're kind of helping them with um the restoration plan up there. So it'll be really interesting to see what this space looks like afterward um once we get the trailhead back open. Um we're putting a lot of work into our trailheads. So folks that frequent uh Popperton uh Park Trailhead will see it. I mean, we're almost there every day doing something. Folks will uh have noticed us out there a lot.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

So my dad lives up there and he's like sending me pictures. He's like, this is the most beautiful thing that I've ever seen. He's like, look at the bathroom, look at the bike things, like it's coming along.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

It's coming along. I'm so excited for it to all be fully functional and open. Um but yeah, so along with like those amenities, we've been doing a lot of native plantings. Um our trails team have done some uh work on the bike trails, which I know you guys have highlighted on the on the social pages.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

They do look very cool.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Yeah, oh my gosh. I I can't stop bragging about that. Yeah, I think yeah, it turned out so well. Um so we're super excited for that. Um but what else? I mean, yeah, there's just always so much going on up there. Um so many people using the space and just enjoying it. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, people love the foothills, yeah, they really do. Yeah, and we have such the such a privilege of access that other cities do not.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So true. Yeah, it's literally our backyard, which is super special.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

It's insane.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

So what do you think? I mean, you've worked for TNL for a while, and what do you think the most rewarding thing about working for that specific division is?

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Um, I would say the most rewarding thing is um making connections with people. Um, like out when I'm out in the field. Um and kind of telling people what we do, uh getting people engaged and and folks that you know don't know what we do or anything like that, they're always so surprised and so grateful. And we just get told thank you so often. It feels great. But people, you know, they love the trail work we're doing, they love the improvements that we're doing. Um, it's really a a morale booster. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah. Would you say that that is your same answer or different for working in your field overall because you've been with TNL for two years but have like such a history in that yeah, probably ecology, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Yeah, um, probably not to be honest. I mean, my first few jobs were so I was so isolated. I was like out in the desert doing these projects for the BLM and like doing more science-based work, and it's like really important for the greater um conservation of the West. Yeah. And like our knowledge of these ecosystems, but the human element was a little bit missing. And so my time at Red Butte and then here at the city, I've just really loved the engagement with the public, teaching people, um, you know, leading leading volunteer events, leading groups on wildflower walks, all that sort of stuff. Just I love it. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Oh yeah. That's so nice. Yeah. Okay, so then also Trails and Natural Lands, what is something that you wish the public knew that they maybe don't know about whether it be something that I mean maybe your team knows and prioritizes, or just something that you wish people knew?

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Yeah. Oh, what a good question. Um there's so many things. We could take a couple. I could go so many ways with this. I mean, I think something that's really important um for people to understand is that we're still just a growing team. Um, we're still pretty small. Um, we love your support. Reach out to your city council person, tell them that you love us and that you want us to keep doing this work. Um, but you know, if we're talking about the foothills specifically, it's a very interesting mix of um land ownership. So a lot of people ask us, why aren't you working on these trails, you know, over by the university, or why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? Um we actually only own kind of portions of the foothills natural area. We're working on agreements right now with the other landowners um to be able to do more work and more trail maintenance. Um so there's this kind of complex whole like uh landownership piece to it, um, which is you know makes my my work very fun um navigating all that. But um yeah, so I don't know, that might be interesting for people to to know that. Um also think, you know, when you're out there recreating, um, it's important to just be curious and like um maybe take a minute to like investigate the ecosystem a little bit more that you're recreating in. Um I think a lot of people just um use it and don't have that kind of connection, but I think that's really important um to like loving the space and taking care of it. It's kind of understanding, even if you learn a couple plants here or there, um, you know, and just kind of understand what you're looking at and what you're seeing, I think can really enhance your experience um and just make you a better um uh or not a better, but just a more responsible user of the space.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah. I think that being like curious piece is really important just because I have even learned so much, just like working here, and I worked with you all on like some occultation like education. Right. And I think people like can so easily be like what's going on, but it's also important for people to remember like things take time, right? Like it's a process that like we are planting these native plants, we need to protect the native plants, these tarps are down, like whatever it is. Right, yeah, so it'd be just patience and curiosity combined. Absolutely, those all for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah, it's you wouldn't be doing it, not just randomly slapping things in the ground or totally taking things out.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

It's all well thought out. Yeah, we're trying to be good stewards of the land, you know. Um, but yeah, restoration takes a long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

So worth it though.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

So we know that like all of kind of the spaces that you work on have an influx of people, like right now is kind of the most busy time of year. Yeah. Even I mean in the spring and fall as well. So, what would your top three guidelines be for people that are like choosing to recreate in the foothills this summer?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Yeah, top three. Um so for one thing, um we probably won't get a lot of rain this summer. Yeah. But we might have a we might have a rainy fall with like a monsoon season, you never know. Um so trying to stay off muddy trails is really important. Um, we can do a lot of damage to trails just with our shoes walking in the mud. Um it takes a lot of time and effort for us to go out there and do trail repairs. Um and so, you know, on top of just trail damage, um, when you're moving mud around on your shoes, you're spreading invasive seeds. Um so really trying to stay off of muddy trails and maybe make another decision that day, that can go a long way um in in trail stewardship. Um another thing is just, yeah, with this influx of people, like the weather's great now, people are getting out there. Um just being courteous to your other trail users, you know. Um a lot of people will um kind of follow the the basic guidelines of like um you know, yield to uphill traffic, um bikes yield to hikers, this sort of thing. I always just say more generally, like slow down and say hello. Um that's nice. Yeah, slow and slow and say hello, you know, be courteous to each other. Um it's not a hard and fast rule of like, oh, I'm on foot, I always get the right-of-way. You might be in a situation where a biker's coming um toward you and they have a difficult rocky section to navigate. Maybe it's easier for you to step off the trail because you're on foot, let them go by, right? So I would say, you know, you're out there, you're having fun. You might be trying to set a personal record on your bike, but but slow and say hello, you know. Just um build those friendships um and welcome people onto the trail system. Um, and then the last thing is with more people, usually comes more dogs. There's a lot of dogs in the city. Um, and so we like to see dogs on leash on our trail systems um for a couple of reasons. Um off-leash um and off-trail, dogs can do damage to the ecosystem, they can spread invasive seeds from invasive plants pretty easily, and they get caught in their fur. Um, I mean that's how those plants evolved was to spread their seeds by getting caught in uh the coat of a deer or something like that. Um but then you know, other people and other dogs may not be comfortable with your dog off leash, right? So being part of being a good steward of the land and being a good um friend to other trail users is keeping your dog in control and never assuming what another person may be comfortable with, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, that's so important just because I don't know, I'm a dog owner and I always am like I know that I know that my dogs are okay, but I keep them on a leash, honestly, for their safety.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Too. Like very good point. They could you just never know. They're unpredictable, even the best dog like something can be.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah, there's a a memory that sticks out to me. Uh this was on like a Saturday or something. I was just recreating with my dog as well. And uh a couple were coming down the trail with two dogs on leash, and I had my dog on leash, and they just lit up. They were I may have been the only person they saw that morning with a dog on a leash, and they were so grateful. They're like, We're working with our dogs so much, they're reactive, we've gone through all these steps and everything. Thank you so much for having your dog on a leash.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Like it helps with the growth so much to us. Like they get to actually learn how to pass another dog. Yeah, that's huge.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah, so that's a big one.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Good job, Jake. And not for nothing, but our foothills do have rattlesnakes. So true. They have like these. Yeah, there's a lot of hazards out there and people don't think about yeah. That looks perfect if something happens to your dog.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

There's snakes. I mean, rattlesnakes obviously would be the worst, but there's other types of snakes. Um, yeah, for your dog's safety.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Totally important. Yeah. Um, okay, bouncing back to invasive species really quick, because 4th of July is coming up very fast, which means fireworks for a large number of areas. Um and we are not excluded from that. People do still set off fireworks here, even though maybe our foothills and ecosystems and even though they're not allowed. Yeah, yeah. Uh don't really get along with those, especially it it being such a dry summer. Right. Um, can you kind of walk us through what we're looking at invasive species-wise in our foothills and elsewhere, and why that is so detrimental when mixed with fireworks?

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Yeah, absolutely. Um well, so uh if people haven't seen it, there was a fire on one of our trails last week.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

I I live in the Aves and I was like, I can smell it.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah, you could smell it. So that's been three years in a row now that we've had uh or is that right? Maybe just two years. Either way, we've had uh the Sandhurst fire, then we had a small fire at the Enzyme Peak Plaza, and now we've had this one on the victory switchbacks. Um so yeah, it's like you can see that the landscape is primed to burn. Um and a lot of what's burning are invasive grasses, phenolia. Totally right. Um, so those plants are what we call uh winter annuals. So they're grasses that aren't um from this region. U usually they're from uh Eurasia, basically like the steppe ecosystems of uh the Middle East and Asia. Um and so they actually germinate in the in the winter and they'll overwinter a small plant, and by the time spring comes around, they're just ready to go. So they start growing first. So they they win the race and all of our native plants, and then you see what comes of that. We have uh we have these hills covered in brown grass by early June, right? Yeah. So and that's the story for a lot of the West, um, across, you know, most of Nevada, Utah, all these spaces are now inhabited by grasses that weren't there uh hundreds of years ago. So it's changed the fire regime a lot. Um it's changed the ecology a lot, um, but it's also changed, you know, our safety level um here close to home. So um that's kind of, you know, why these areas burn. Um and so folks that live close, you know, to open spaces, um, best thing that you can to do to try and, you know, um mitigate that risk is to get a fire assessment done. The fire department um does those and they recommend um that you reach out to them and go through that process. Um and just keeping kind of your fence lines uh mode and everything um can help, you know, fire from spreading close to your home. Um but then just more generally, um invasive plants in in the foothills um have all sorts of negative effects. You know, we see them proliferate right on trail margins, uh they're being spread by us just walking with our dogs or just by ourselves. Um so they can make they can make travel on trails more difficult. Sometimes they can cover trail corridors. Um yeah, and they usually have that different life cycle. Like I said, the grass comes up so early, the other things usually um are earlier than our um native plants and so they're taking those resources and that early season moisture and making it more difficult for our native um plants to to survive out there.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

I have d uh like a double question after that. So are do are they burning so fast because of the different life cycle? Because they're already at the end of it by the time we get to summer and this uh wild.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah, so they're already they've already done their thing, they've flowered, they've gone to seed, they're starting to dry out. So native plants that are still green or still have some moisture in them, they wouldn't burn as easily. But this other stuff is already already done with its life cycle for the season, drying up, and it's the perfect fuel. So it does it burns hotter, it burns quicker, and the the the risk of it is that you know the low grass, it just it just fire spreads much more quickly through those types of systems, you know. Like um maybe in a forest or like a shrub ecosystem, fire would move more slowly. There'd be more fuel, denser fuel to burn in one location. Yeah. But wind and dry grass, yeah. Yeah, it's scary stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah, totally. And then second, so is why is it so hard to get I mean, how do I phrase this? Like why m what I want to say is why is it so hard to get rid of? And is burning like is the burning actually helping get rid of it, or is that like making it a better ground for it to re germinate? I is that the right term? And when it comes fall, winter.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Right. Yeah, I think it's the right word. Okay, yeah, so co it's a it's a complex answer. Sure. So the reason that it's so hard to get rid of um a system that's invaded with this type of grass is it it develops a seed bank, right? So if you're looking at the foothills in general, we have a history of grazing, all these land use um things that the early settlers of of the region were doing, and they were depleting um the native plant system, right? So they were grazing sheep, they were grazing cattle, and those animals were eating all the native grasses. So over time you um decrease the number of plants, you decrease the number of seeds that they're putting out on the landscape, and you're decreasing the number of seeds that are in the soil. That's what we call the seed bank, is everything that's in the soil and available to germinate the next year or years to come. Some native plants won't germinate um if the conditions aren't right, if the moisture levels aren't right, if there wasn't enough um a long enough period of cold, etc. So what has happened over time is the seed bank has switched from being uh stocked with native seeds to being stocked with seeds from invasive grasses. So when you have a fire that goes through in a undisturbed, uh I guess you would say, like um um reference ecosystem, you know, a historic ecosystem, fire would go through, it would burn the above-ground vegetation, you would return all this nice carbon to the soil, um, and then all of your native plant seeds would have this perfect um soil matrix to grow up in. But now when a fire comes through, what's there to re-sprout is mostly just the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yes, I know.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

It's a hard it's a hard answer to to kind of stomach, but that's exactly the like the work that we're doing is trying to get um native plant communities established back in the landscape in a resilient enough way that they can start to rebuild that seed bank.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Cool, yeah. Wow, that's very important, but very like long-term work.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Well, like you said earlier, it's restoration takes a long time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Wow. Okay, so then I guess switching gears just a tiny bit. So we love our foothills, and we are really happy that lots of other people love them as well. But just from use, they get pretty beat up like from human use, from weather, all of that. So, why do you think that people should volunteer in the foothills? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Please come out. We have volunteer events all season long. Um, whether it's weeding or planting or or otherwise, there's something for you. Um, and I do think it is important, you know. Um, you're spending a lot of time out there in this kind of shared resource. Um, and um these spaces can unfortunately be loved to death, you know. It's like I'm out there all the time. I'm a big trail runner. I love it. Um, but I know that every time I go out, I'm putting a little bit of wear and tear on the trail, right? Um I'm using those dog bags at the at the trailheads, you know. Um so I think it it makes sense to give back a little bit, come out, learn a bit more about the space that you love. Um, give back, put in a couple hours, you know. It'll be a small ratio, I imagine, to some of these people that are out there all the time. Um so yeah, we'd love to see you out there.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Yeah, yeah. And it's nice, there's kind of opportunities to be as involved as you want as a volunteer. Yeah. So there's opportunities to be really involved, and then it can be more of a passive activity. But I think that you're right. If you're using these spaces, yeah, it is nice to give back to them in some capacity.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, absolutely. It really all finds this nice overarching theme of mindfulness from like saying hello to people on the trail and just slowing down to being curious to to giving back. Right. Yeah. It's a nice little nice little thing we got going on here with DL. Okay. Jake, to wrap it up, I have some rapid fire questions for you. Okay. All right. Number one, favorite native plant.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Hmm. That's like the impossible question.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

The hardest ever for you.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Um, I'll tell you You can do more than one. I'll tell you, I'll tell you one that um I really like. Uh it's in the sunflower family. Okay. Um, it's called uh Douglas's Dusty Maiden. It's a very fun name. The Latin name is Chinectus the Glacii. Um and what's cool about it is it only has disc florets. So sunflowers have ray florets and disc florets, and this one only has disc florets. Oh, I need to find something attached. Yeah. Google that. Um anyway, it's a beautiful little biennial. Um you can find it low elevations uh all the way up into the alpine. So cool. It's very gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Wow. I've never even I need to look her up immediately. Yeah. Okay, second favorite plant in general, not native wherever in the world.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah. Oh man. Yeah, I mean, there's some really, really cool plants out there. Um one of my favorites is the Swarrow cactus. Um it's so like charismatic, you know? You know where you are in the world if you're seeing it. You're like, oh, I'm in the Mojave. Um a lot of personality. Absolutely. Um, yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

I don't think I knew that they were specifically like is it just in the Mojave that you found them?

SPEAKER_02 31:43

I believe so. I believe so.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Um, okay, favorite Salt Lake City hiking trail. Slash let me get hiking trail and then running trail. Because Fanola's also a trail runner. I pretty much only run. So okay, give us favorite running trail.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Um, let's see. A really fun loop that I do quite often um is starting at Popperton Trailhead. You go up Dry Creek, um, and then you go up to Avenue's Twin Peaks, and then come down kind of on the western, like northwestern side, and then come down the Tomahawk Trail. Um, and then you can you have to go a little bit on road or on sidewalk, excuse me. I never run in the road. Um and then you pop down through the Popperton West Loop and then you're back to your car. So it's a very nice like five to six mile loop.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Nice. Is that very nice? I'm like so bad at trail names. But does that take you past the cemetery?

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Uh no, you wouldn't be that far.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

You wouldn't be that far west.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

I also, a favorite of mine starts out very similar to that, but then I go across. I end up like going all the way down that huge hill by 11th half park. Okay. So like you get spit out onto the sidewalk, and then you run down the sidewalk and you turn to run on the shoulder in the cemetery.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Right. Yeah. It's great. But yeah. I think I know exactly what you're talking about. So you'd be coming out of the Terrace Hills uh trailhead right there, and then down. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

But do love Drag Creek.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Yes, I do too.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Um favorite trail snack.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Oh man. Just basically anything. I mean, what's what's great about trail running is like you get so hungry. The best thing about running is that you get to eat afterward. Um, but while I'm on trail, um I like dried mango, I like nerd scummy clusters. Love. Big fan. Yeah. Love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Um, favorite place to take your dog in the city.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Could be trail or else.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah, he loves all the trails too. He runs with me all the time. What's his name? Again.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Mosey. Mosey. Yeah. He's a beautiful dog. He comes in.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

The office. We love.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I need to bring him in more. Yes. Um, favorite place. Well, I l I like um him being able to cool down. Um there's a really nice loop around Red Butte Garden that I do with him, and he gets to pop in Red Butte Creek and cool off and get a little drink, so that's a really good one. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Sweet. And then maybe your most interesting or favorite plant slash ecosystem related fact. It could be Utah or elsewhere.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Wow. Again, there's just so many good ones. So many to choose from. Um well, I studied a bit of soil science uh back in college, and all the plant life that you see above ground is just a fraction compared to like the diversity that's going on below ground. Um in l I forget the exact numbers, but we're in like a tablespoon of soil, there's like millions and millions of organisms, right? It's just crazy. Um and so soil and and plant life really go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Um and there's a really cool thing called arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi. So it's a uh particular type of fungi that basically connects to plant roots, kind of functionally expands like the root system of a plant. And it's this mutualistic relationship where the fungi is getting carbon from the plant, the plant's getting certain nutrients from the fungi. And the cool thing is about 80% of all um terrestrial plants have this association with some type of species of the arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi. So yeah. Wow, that one's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

That's like mind flowing. Wow, people have gotta like look deeper. I know.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

I wish we had so much to learn out there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Get curious. Like curious. Like the like theme of the episode, which I love. Maybe that's the name of the Family.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Well, Jake, like, I think this was a very educational and very fun episode that people are really gonna love. Yes. I think so too. Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Giving us all the tidbits. Thank you for asking me.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah, I would love to come back. Oh my gosh, anytime. Yeah, of course. Oh, yeah. That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Thank you all for joining us for this week's episode of the Public Lands podcast. Chat soon, and we'll see you on the trail.